An interview for Teatr dla Was Magazine

 

Wieslaw Kowalski: Your performance at the Warsaw Chamber Opera was like a revelation to me. It is a very intelligently composed work, artistically and solidly written, ideally synchronized with music. „Orphée” has already received a great deal of such compliments. How do you feel about this?

Margo Zalite: The success of our collaboration stems from our deep friendship, both as artists and as personalities. In addition, we both like sacred and choral music; we have the same worldview and same musical passions. I must also say that I am very sensitive and I understand music. Dariusz gives me a world I love to touch.

Dariusz Przybylski: Margo was present at the opera’s creation from the very beginning. It was a perfect solution: a director and co-writer of the libretto in one person. I think that therein lies the power of our production.

WK: The topic of Orpheus is so broad that it allows for different interpretations as to who he was, how he lived and created. This character is also differently represented by theatrical artists in their stage productions. He has already been represented in other theatrical directors’ work as author and director, artist and performer, a master of everything (life, nature, society, and music), as someone who still composes as if he’s forgotten everything, engrossed in music, in creativity … The myth concerning the Greek bard has been transformed not only by musicians, but also by writers, poets, sculptors, and choreographers. In your interpretation Orpheus is perhaps yet something else. After all, he’s represented on stage as young, mature, and old. What was the most important thing for you when you were working on the libretto of „Orphée”? 

MZ: We wanted to show that Orpheus does not mature through different stages of his life. He is an absolute slave of his own talent. He cannot control his gifts and remains the same narcissistic being that he was at the very beginning. Eurydice is constantly warning him: please develop your soul, otherwise you are lost as an artist, but he doesn’t listen. To me Orpheus is a 21st century narcissist.

DP: In my work, Orpheus is a character that longs to be loved, but doesn’t know how to love back. He battles with his desires, but surrenders – he destroys his love, wants to be free, but becomes a slave of his own talent. I want to bring out what is important in every human being’s life.

WK: I get the feeling that in your world hybris appears very quickly, which kind of stifles emotions and the seat of feelings? What was more important for you – the pride of music, or perhaps the helplessness of music? Or is it perhaps something still different?

MZ: Exactly. You are the first person to say it. Thank you for your sharp perception. Exactly. It is the violent and excessive behavior towards music (Orpheus) that stigmatizes our development as artists AND stops the emotional life as well. This is the core idea of my current work.

WK: In your concept of Orpheus, the main character is accompanied by other characters. Thanks to this, new meanings arise, new truths, new revelations, new interpretations, and in the end, the whole myth becomes extremely modern … The Monk becomes an important character.

DP: My world of opera is unreal, dreamlike, and reminds one of a fairytale. The introduction of characters not directly related to the myth, and the setting of texts that have nothing to do with Orpheus, such as in the scene based on a Biblical fragment (Sodom and Gomorrah), were supposed to reinforce this feeling. However, all the characters have an influence on Orpheus’ actions. If we accept that every fragment in the libretto refers to the main character, we will see Orpheus in a new light.

MZ: The Monk is my personal invention. I wanted to show three different ways of thinking: Orpheus as a narrow-minded contemporary narcissist unable to mature, Eurydice – an old-fashioned feminist with an ability to mature, and the Monk with a timeless human longing for knowledge, along with his suffering and resurrection.

DP: We allotted each of the seven main characters one deadly sin, because just like in real life – there are no flawless people or gods.

WK: Where did the idea of introducing Orpheus’ alter ego into the libretto come from? proMODERN, a vocal sextet, has a great role to play here, and let’s say right away that it isn’t just a question of vocals, but stage action planned very precisely on the set. This effect is emphasized even more by the sound of the accordion.

MZ: The importance of proMODERN increased on stage after I saw them at the first rehearsal. Our collaboration was excellent from the start, so I developed their roles to a greater extent than I thought I would have. proMODERN are absolute professionals in their field. I wish them lots of success in the future.

DP: The alter ego character was also dramatically significant. Just when the group responsible for it takes part in the stage action, we may assume that this particular scene is being played out in Orpheus’ mind. The part of the accordion, appearing incidentally, is there to add color to the sound; however, the excellent accordionist – Maciej Frąckiewicz – also plays a part on stage.

WK: Eurydice has a very difficult role to play in your spectacle – Barbara Zamek has to impersonate this character with great dedication, and in addition she has accurately programmed movements of automated, mechanical gestures (this goes for other characters on stage as well). These movements may remind one of the activities of “off-theatres” rather than of a venerable opera. In general, the movements, the body, the way of moving around to different places on stage seem to be an unusually relevant element in building the narration and drama of this stage production. Were you not afraid that this variety of applied conventions, construction of theatrical signs from interdisciplinary techniques, the mixing together of different time periods, myths, plays and languages might drown out the work’s undertone and carry our imagination to realms less understood?

MZ: My curiosity always overcomes my fear. This is my life motto. I nurse my senses very carefully and totally trust my inner voice. I noticed that only those stage works live in which the director was absolutely honest with him- or herself. All the rest is my world on the stage. Take it or leave it. Joke. But commenting the hands … it is a very practical decision: to make an adaptation to stage proportions, but this is hard to explain. I am just very fascinated by body and space proportions.

DP: Yes, Eurydice’s part is the most demanding of all in the entire opera, both from an actor’s point of view and musically. Her part is rich in numerous elements of musical rhetoric and Baroque ornamentation, which demand a great deal of concentration on the part of the performer. Luckily I was acquainted with the vocalists’ abilities as I composed ”Orphée”, which let me exploit their potential to the fullest. This was especially the case when I was setting the part of Apollo for the virtuosity of Anna Radziejewska, the part of the Monk for Witold Żołądkiewicz’s lyricism and strength of voice, or that of the emotional Hermes for a moving performance by Mateusz Zajdel.

WK: The androgynous character of Apollo is also interestingly represented, impersonated by Anna Radziejewska (again, the vocalist makes use of impressive and consistent hand movements). The god of light, but perhaps not only of that? Does this point towards the Baroque theatre?

MZ: Of course, it is a very clear reference to the Baroque period. I believe that we live in a second baroque era. One could write a PhD thesis about it, but in short: we experience the same amount of overdressing and lying to ourselves that were common in the original baroque. I am not criticizing my time, I am just observing. I love my century.

WK: A really unexpected moment in the spectacle happened during the scene when all three heroes sat down at the proscenium with score in hand and began to practice their parts under the tutor’s guidance. The vocalists did this completely privately. I admit it’s the first time that I saw this type of approach in an opera, although it’s been applied in drama theatres, or rather post-drama theatres, for a long time. I must also admit that I am not the only one for whom the interpretation of this sequence was rather hard to follow.

MZ: I think the break could have been even larger. If I had the chance to see the costumes before the dress rehearsal, I would have substituted them for Orpheus’ private costumes in that particular scene. And the chosen language is very simple: I wanted to question the theatre and Orpheus at a dramaturgical moment, when the audience feels secure that it knows everything.

WK: Dorota Szwarcman - Polish reviewer -writes that this opera’s music is eclectic, „but imbedded in a modern setting,” yet I get the impression that there is a certain coherency and complexity in this drama?

DP: The music of „Orphée” is rather complex, multilayered, and covers several dimensions. The kind of instrumentation I used let me exploit the colorfulness of sound and also let me show the full potential of the orchestra according to my aural esthetics. What does “eclectic” mean today? There is always a point of reference and inspiration to be found in art of a previous time period. I really cared about snatching the listener into my world for at least a moment and evoking an emotion from him, sometimes even an extreme one, with the help of music.

WK: Jacek Marczyński - Polish reviewer - noticed that in your work as an opera director you let yourself be inspired by Robert Wilson's works and the Japanese theatre. Is that true and what are your inspirations?

MZ: I am not inspired by other directors. My own life is my inspiration. Theatre to me is a refuge from the world. I will never imitate reality on stage. We have it all already in TV, Movies, and the Internet. I need music to believe in life bigger than life itself. I have been using this theatrical language from the very beginning, which was fifteen years ago. It was very surprising to me to see other directors work the way I feel. I find Wilson’s works, which are presented at „Berliner Ensemble,“ interesting for fifteen minutes, after that his pieces lull me to sleep („Drei Groschenoper“, „Shakespeare’s Sonnets“). In my opinion, Wilson’s theatrical works lack vital reactions from the performers. He is stealing the most important thing from them: the joy to play.

WK: The musical dramaturgy of this opera is impressive, in which there are no empty spaces, and all the phrases, full of tension and resolution, are fused into one logical form. How is such an artistic effect achieved? Are there certain methods?

MZ: I studied music theatre for many years. To be sure, there are clear outlines and methods to construct a libretto. I always remember what Alban Berg said, that the study of form is the most important thing. After that he wrote „Wozzeck“, the most important opera of 20th century.

DP: Indeed, form was our point of reference. We planned the emotional course to run 95 minutes for the duration of the work. It was important for me to plan out the culmination point and the great contrasts, that is, dynamic contrasts and contrasts in cast in between any given scene. Margo and the outstanding performers took care of the rest.

WK: This opera demands great discipline and technique from all vocalists, not just the soloists. How did you choose the cast for your spectacle?

DP: When composing for a particular theatre with a repertoire, the composer must keep in mind the artists who work there. The casting was the most important step before embarking on writing the work. The Warsaw Chamber Opera provided me with ideal soloists and ensembles.

MZ: Directors rarely choose the cast in operas. This is our homework: to learn to be flexible for different singers and characters, and to convince different performers with our ideas.

WK: The way you set the whole group in motion on stage is excellent, and this group is being used on a horizontal as well as on a vertical level, and you make the entire theatrical space come alive; thanks to this, there are no static moments in the spectacle … everything is almost continuously in motion. In conjunction with the music and projections, all of reality seems to reach the heights of heaven. This is not a phenomenon that is often met with in an opera. A rather conventional approach to movement on stage still dominates here. 

MZ: To be original as a main goal is for idiots. I come from a very strict home and from an even more rigorous music education system in Latvia. The free spirit in me is a mixture of these two aspects. I am a highly responsible cook of different talents, mine included. I see what people can do, what the audience can bear, where my soul is going, what the story can tell, what kind of opera the theatre must create in this world – that is when I set to work. That ́s it. To wish for more would be spitting in God’s face.

DP: The soloists and the ensembles worked together with Margo very willingly. Her personality lends itself easily to the achievement of the intended goal.

WK: You invited Maja Metelska to cooperate with you, who was able to master this broad form. One can say that music under her direction was able to hypnotize with its sonorous beauty and that it took great part in moving the theatrical audience. She charmed the audience with her great feeling of style and led the orchestra with unusual sensitivity, which in turn bewitched us on the one hand with its artistic sound, timbre, and lyricism, while on the other it spooked with something menacing and disturbing. 

DP: Actually, it was Maja who invited me to collaborate with her. I am very grateful to her for that! Maja’s assignment was not simple – it is always uncertain as to how the premiere will unfold, since everyone has to be properly prepared and convinced to act according to her vision. Maja spent a lot of time getting the right sound coloring from the orchestra that I wanted, and besides, she’s dedicated to her work – she fought for the right effect right up until the last rehearsal.

WK: Which composer has the greatest influence on your artistic, composer’s endeavors so far as natural rhythm systems, prosody, modality, color and orchestration are concerned?

DP: There is always Ravel in the background, whom I admire as a “sound-painter”, then Messiaen for his precise system of organizing the musical material. Every now and then a different composer fascinates me, and this happens all the time, which I find most charming and lets me delight in the art of music all over again.

 

Translation by Matthæus Zawadzki